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Author Topic: Multiple Hubs  (Read 3062 times)

Benz

  • Former member
Multiple Hubs
« on: December 31, 2009, 04:42:18 AM »
Obviously, some of you have grown so large, that you have to have multiple hubs.  How is this put together, as the game says we can't.

Offline Sigma

  • Members
  • Posts: 1920
Re: Multiple Hubs
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2009, 07:36:13 AM »
It's not possible.

All your planes MUST start their routes from the same airport.

But you can schedule "W-shaped" routes -- i.e. you fly somewhere, then somewhere else, and then return backwards.

So what you can do is fly all your planes from your Headquarters, to somewhere else, and then fly to a "focus city", and then reverse.  Keep having your planes fly to the same 2nd destination over and over again, and on the map, it looks like you've got another hub, but it's sort of a 'fake' hub as the plane will always return to your Headquarters.

Attached is an image of my Route Map in the MT game.  It appears that I'm running a hub out of both DFW and ORD, where I'm the largest airline at each location by far.  But, really, my headquarters is Dallas.  If you look carefully, every location I fly to ORD, I also fly to from DFW.  This is because my planes are flying DFW-->XXX-->ORD, and then they reverse.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2009, 07:43:55 AM by Sigma »

RB211TriStar

  • Former member
Re: Multiple Hubs
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2009, 03:07:26 PM »
The risk, obviously being, over-saturating the routes between your "hubs".

Offline Daveos

  • Members
  • Posts: 2983
Re: Multiple Hubs
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2009, 05:00:51 PM »
The risk, obviously being, over-saturating the routes between your "hubs".

Not necessarily, as like Sigma says - if you fly DFW-???-ORD then you never have to put capacity on the DFW-ORD directly.  I find that the best way of establishing hubs, rather than putting 25x daily flights etc between hubs.

Benz

  • Former member
Re: Multiple Hubs
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2009, 09:12:55 PM »
Thanks for the help.

ICEcoldair881

  • Former member
Re: Multiple Hubs
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2010, 08:05:42 PM »
Not necessarily, as like Sigma says - if you fly DFW-???-ORD then you never have to put capacity on the DFW-ORD directly.  I find that the best way of establishing hubs, rather than putting 25x daily flights etc between hubs.

but then you run the risk of lower demand on that route. ;) for example, when I was running Asian CityJet out of Taipei's domestic airport, I made Kaohsiung my secondary hub, but if I wanted to fly to Hong Kong from my domestic Hub, the demand would be 0. if I flew TSA-KHH-HKG, then I get money from both, as the demand to HKG is quite substantial, but I run the risk of over-saturating the TSA-KHH route. Also, I think you can set up a secondary hub in the newest games now. :-\ not sure though.

Offline DHillMSP

  • Members
  • Posts: 1201
Re: Multiple Hubs
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2010, 04:40:10 AM »
I have to say that this thread has been most helpful (though probably not for my competition ;D ).  Based on this, I've done a ton of additional research and am planning a "focus city" strategy.  It's another layer of strategy that is helping keep me on my toes.  ;D

pfmboidi

  • Former member
Re: Multiple Hubs
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2010, 09:30:16 AM »
I think that the AAA-XXX-BBB strategy is valid for only one extra hub... when you run out of XXX it hits its limit.

You have to sacrifice first legs to secondary hubs in order to get more second legs and exploit all the demand around you.

What you have to do is minimize the impact of the first leg, finding airports very close to you that have sufficient demand to cover your costs. In the end is actually like running one leg flights with less efficient planes or diluted LF or whatever. I am using this strategy for now and it is working for me, but it will hit its limit again when the "colonies" will be too far to make a profit on the second leg.

This is true for me and on a regional airline scale. No idea if this could work on longer routes as maybe the fuel impact gets too high?

RB211TriStar

  • Former member
Re: Multiple Hubs
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2010, 03:57:28 AM »
IMHO, its not the fuel impact but the turn around time impact. Your aircraft end up spending a lot of time either flying low-profit routes on the first leg or sitting on the ground during turns. It gets especially painful when you get into big widebodies that can take up to 3 hrs to load/unload.

Talentz

  • Former member
Re: Multiple Hubs
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2010, 05:20:41 AM »
Also keep in mind that running a few continuation routes is far from making another city a hub outside your base. It takes several factors to consider before making a successful (2nd) hub. When mastered, it can be turned into an effective killing strategy among others. Much to Sami's disapproval  ;)


Its one of the many strategies that can be explored in AWS. However, with most things, it takes time and hardwork to succeed. I have failed many of times trying to prefect my continuation strategy.


Feel free to drop a pm if you have a question or two. I enjoy helping.


Stronger competition makes one even stronger ;D


Talentz

pfmboidi

  • Former member
Re: Multiple Hubs
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2010, 11:37:24 AM »
@RB211TriStar : You are right...i guess that at that point "opportunity costs" come in.


That is why I believe that this works only with small props and very close routes where you can "waste" max 1.5h on the first leg.

In any case you hit the limit once you run out of very short first legs! (when midgets leave the party is over)

ICEcoldair881

  • Former member
Re: Multiple Hubs
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2010, 10:29:03 PM »
actually, the thing about multiple hubs is an amazing thing when perfected, as said marvelously by Talentz (one of his many talentz... ;D), you can create a very competitive airline and when announced that you have, say, 100 flights between New York and Chicago, you will sound bigger and stronger than you actually are. for example, you could have an airline based in Chicago but there is a lot of demand to Minneapolis and from Minneapolis to all around the world. If you get them at the perfect time, you can sound like huge mage-airline based out of Chicago AND Minneapolis, with (approx.) 150 daily connector flights between ORD and MSP. That right there is the best thing with that part. The bad part though, is that you also will be wasting your money on over-extending yourself at Minneapolis, because you have to get there first, you will run out of slots just getting there and back, and it will be complex to schedule as you need to turnaround in Minneapolis, and then go to (eg.) Addis Ababa or Singapore. It will be collosally expensive too because you are flying and B744 from ORD to MSP, then MSP to SIN and back. it will eat away at your commuter profits between ORD and MSP that go onto YYZ or YWG or MKE. that is the biggest downside. If you are only using MSP as domestic though, a good suggestion is just to use bigger airplanes like the A321 or B739, but not anything that usually is considered a Heavy aircraft, as they will take hours to turnarounrd and will choke your commuter planes' profits and fill-rate. Like Talentz Said, when perfected, and it usually doesn't end up that way, Multiple hubs are great in making you look bigger than you actually are, but they can be deadly if you use bigger aircraft on connecting and LH routes from your secondary Hub, and believe me, I've tried.  :P

jchaves

  • Former member
Re: Multiple Hubs
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2010, 07:32:45 AM »
It's not possible.

All your planes MUST start their routes from the same airport.



Unfortunately, it seems possible, Sigma. My HQ (PanAir) is Moscow - Sheremetyevo (UUEE) and I'm having problems with new routes because there is another airline, based in Moscow - Domodedovo (UUDD), who is really flying (I mean starting his routes) from Sheremetyevo. Not the legs process, the game don't allow you to fly between those two airports. The airline is FlyTJM and you can check that in his route network map if you zoom in enough.

Offline Sigma

  • Members
  • Posts: 1920
Re: Multiple Hubs
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2010, 07:56:38 AM »
Unfortunately, it seems possible, Sigma. My HQ (PanAir) is Moscow - Sheremetyevo (UUEE) and I'm having problems with new routes because there is another airline, based in Moscow - Domodedovo (UUDD), who is really flying (I mean starting his routes) from Sheremetyevo. Not the legs process, the game don't allow you to fly between those two airports. The airline is FlyTJM and you can check that in his route network map if you zoom in enough.

I can't see your game information as I'm not in your games, but it is simply not possible.  When you go "Open Route", the route MUST start at your headquartered airport.  This isn't even an option; it's automatic.

Are you sure he's not flying to another location and THEN to UUEE?  Or, put another way, is there any destination that he ONLY flies to from UUEE and has no connection with flights to UUDD?

I can do that in Dallas for example.  I can fly from DFW to Atlanta then to DAL (Love) which is just a few miles from DFW.   As such, I'm flying both DFW-ATL and DAL-ATL.

jchaves

  • Former member
Re: Multiple Hubs
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2010, 08:05:41 AM »
I can't see your game information as I'm not in your games, but it is simply not possible.  When you go "Open Route", the route MUST start at your headquartered airport.  This isn't even an option; it's automatic.

Are you sure he's not flying to another location and THEN to UUEE?  Or, put another way, is there any destination that he ONLY flies to from UUEE and has no connection with flights to UUDD?

I can do that in Dallas for example.  I can fly from DFW to Atlanta then to DAL (Love) which is just a few miles from DFW.   As such, I'm flying both DFW-ATL and DAL-ATL.

Well, I can't be 100% sure, because I can't verify his flights details. I understand what you're saying, anyway. If it's the case, it's a bit insane. And it is my problem, of course, as I started late and took care choosing an empty HQ.

 

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