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Online Airline Management Simulation
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Author Topic: Continuously losing money  (Read 1347 times)

Horizon22

  • Former member
Continuously losing money
« on: December 07, 2009, 07:15:57 PM »
This is getting really annoying. In any game I setup wherever it is I always end up losing money yet my planes are always making good profits and i've returned to the game after having some fairly successful airlines 5/6 months ago. I really don't know where i'm going wrong so any assistance would be helpful. Here's some examples of my Income Statements

Sold tickets (economy)
Sold tickets (business)
Sold tickets (first)
Sold aircraft
Aircraft lease income
Total Income
Fuel
Staff salaries
Staff training
Marketing
Passenger fees
Navigation fees
Landing fees
Ground handling
Aircraft maintenance
Aircraft insurance
Aircraft leases
Purchased aircraft
Alliance fees
Fines
Total Loss
Loan payments
Bank fees
Interest
Income tax (40%)

Result
950 430 USD
0 USD
0 USD
0 USD
0 USD
950 430 USD
-338 007 USD
-58 238 USD
-54 545 USD
-14 658 USD
-97 168 USD
-60 382 USD
-38 307 USD
-62 508 USD
-274 942 USD
-12 649 USD
0 USD
0 USD
0 USD
0 USD
-1 011 404 USD
0 USD
0 USD
680 USD
0 USD
680 USD
-60 294 USD
925 933 USD
0 USD
0 USD
0 USD
0 USD
925 933 USD
-339 793 USD
-58 238 USD
-54 495 USD
-14 644 USD
-94 840 USD
-59 976 USD
-38 085 USD
-61 765 USD
-240 043 USD
-12 698 USD
0 USD
0 USD
0 USD
0 USD
-974 577 USD
0 USD
0 USD
707 USD
0 USD
707 USD
-47 937 USD

1 Boeing 727-200
1 Tupolev Tu-154
1 NAMC YS-11A-200

Average LF of around 60% and the only real issue I see is the very high maintenance costs but I see no way to decrease this and no understanding as to why this would cause such as drastic impact.  :-\

Talentz

  • Former member
Re: Continuously losing money
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2009, 07:31:21 PM »
Hi. One of the main driving points in the game manual is to keep great fleet commonality at the start. Doing that insures a more robust airline. Seeing as you have 3 aircraft and 3 different types ..that does not help you.

Pick 1 aircraft that can serve an average range of routes from your hub and add only that type. After you reach 20+, you can then add more types if needed.

Next I would assume maint is way to high given your companies age. What age are the 722 and Tu-154? Also, the Tu-154 is .. tough to make money with. The early models burn alot of fuel. Also, there maint cost is absurd. On the other hand, the 722 can be a great profit making aircraft. However, it too has a higher avg maint cost for its class.

Lastly, are you maxing out your aircraft's time? Are the routes set up for success? If you can post a screen shot of your aircraft's routes and demand I could tell if that area can be improved.

Overall I think the high maintenance comes from the aging 722 and Tu-154. Not to mention the 154 is horrid for maintenance costs.



- Talentz

Horizon22

  • Former member
Re: Continuously losing money
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2009, 07:54:19 PM »
Well what would you mention for a new starting out airline? You can't buy any other planes apart from some Douglas/Tupolev/Vickers now the game has advanced. I would love to have 10 722s, but everyone else wants that aswell so joining late puts you at a massive, unconsolable disadvantage.  Thats all you have that you can afford. The average age of all the planes is around 14 years, with the oldest being the 722 (approaching 18 years)

By the way my planes have an average utilisation time of 17 hours which is something like 30th in the game (out of 290ish)
« Last Edit: December 07, 2009, 07:57:06 PM by Horizon22 »

ucfknightryan

  • Former member
Re: Continuously losing money
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2009, 01:14:31 AM »
I know what you mean Horizon22, the used aircraft pickings in Dawn have been pretty slim.  I made the mistake of picking up a couple of DC-8-50s the first time out in this game and bankrupted out in just a few months.  This time i picked up some BAC-1-11s.  They've been decently profitable, but the C-checks have bit back hard  :-\  I'm in the process of breaking the leases when C-checks hit and replacing them with new BAe146s (picked these mainly because they're about the same size and the production queue is fairly short).  It's very slow going though.

Just take your time procuring used aircraft.  At this stage you can't usually buy the aircraft the instant you want it, but if you keep looking eventually you'll find one you want to buy.  It means expansion will be slower then you'd like (heck mine has for all intents and purposes stopped until I get rid of the BACs), but it's better then busting out 'cause of fuel and maintenance pigs like those DC-8s i bought.

Riger

  • Former member
Re: Continuously losing money
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2009, 01:26:12 AM »
Not to overstate the obvious but,

- Proper route selection determines (mostly) how much money you make and,
- Proper Aircraft selection determines how much money it costs to make that money.


The routes you choose should have more demand than you supply and if possible, there should be no (little) competition on the routes.
The airport you operate from should (in the early stages) not have more than 2 (including you) players.  With experience you will be able to take on the other players more directly.
My advice is to have a common type for the first 5 aircraft, and a common manufacturer for the first 10 aircraft.
Choose aircraft that will  not C-check within 8-10 months and not D-check within 3 years.

Hope this helps

Best Regards
Richard

(PS : You will notice that your lease costs are zero, after 4 months of game time, you can add a significant additional cost there too.)

Talentz

  • Former member
Re: Continuously losing money
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2009, 03:25:33 AM »
The average age of all the planes is around 14 years, with the oldest being the 722 (approaching 18 years)

18 yrs old is pushing the limits of profitable, for the first few aircraft. Idealy, your first aircraft should be in the 5yr-10 range. I wouldn't recommend 16yr+ for starter aircraft. Nine out of ten times you'll end up keeping and flying those aircraft for 2-3yrs. Thus, forced to pay a very expensive C check every time. Which if not fully prepared, will kill your airline before the 1st year is up.

I am not trying to make light of your aircraft selection. If that is what your forced to fly, then that is the handicap you have. Just know that your airline is less efficient because of what you have. That's not to say it can't be done. However, it does make running an airline much more difficult then it has to be.

By the way my planes have an average utilisation time of 17 hours which is something like 30th in the game (out of 290ish)

That's nice. Utilization time is kinda overrated if you ask me. I can have a 20hr+ utilization time running long and thin A-B-C routes and not make nearly as much as someone with a 12hr utilization w/ an avg of 4 routes. Riger hits some very important points:

Not to overstate the obvious but,

- Proper route selection determines (mostly) how much money you make and,
- Proper Aircraft selection determines how much money it costs to make that money.

Five routes will make more money then 3 routes. Always.

To give you an example: Euro Challenge

Fleet Utilization: 12.7 hrs/ 45th of 83
Fleet Size: 65 / 10th of 83
Sales Revenue, Quarterly: 581 901 097 / 5th of 83

The most profitable airline in Euro Challenge has a Utilization of 12.9hrs.

Route selection is fundamental.


- Talentz





« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 03:36:48 AM by Talentz »

samomuransky

  • Former member
Re: Continuously losing money
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2009, 07:58:07 AM »
Plus, I see you don't have any C class. If there is C demand on your routes, definetly invest into reconfiguring a/c :)

Horizon22

  • Former member
Re: Continuously losing money
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2009, 11:01:58 AM »
Thanks for all the info
By the way
  • All my routes have more demand than supply
  • I would love to have newer aircraft if that was physically possible  :-\
  • All my aircracft had C-Checks from 9-12 months when i bought them

I'm now making +60K a week now. Haven't changed anything the LF's must have just picked up :P

Riger

  • Former member
Re: Continuously losing money
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2009, 11:14:15 AM »
Remember that over time your Route Image also improves and this has a possitive impact on the LF.

 

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