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Author Topic: AWS Competition Bureau warns 'Rlines' for slot abuse  (Read 3924 times)

Offline Sami

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AWS Competition Bureau warns 'Rlines' for slot abuse
« on: September 06, 2009, 12:16:15 AM »
The AWS Administrative Competition Bureau (= fancy name for administrator.. LOL) has issued a warning to JFK based airline Rlines for abusing slots at JFK airport.

The airline has introduced multiple (>150) daily flights to a nearby Tweed airport with DH104 aircraft with the apparent sole purpose of keeping the precious JFK slots to himself until the airline can aquire more aircraft and use the slots later. Proof of this is seen with the route itself where the airline offers ~2000 daily seats on a route with ~50 seat demand, route is flown with small aircraft (cheapest he can find).

Such slot hogging is not allowed and thanks to a report from another airline the administration has issued a warning to this airline and has removed these JFK slots!
« Last Edit: September 06, 2009, 12:18:17 AM by sami »

Offline Sigma

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Re: AWS Competition Bureau warns 'Rlines' for slot abuse
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2009, 12:57:44 AM »
Haha.  That's great.  Love it.

Offline ali5541

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Re: AWS Competition Bureau warns 'Rlines' for slot abuse
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2009, 01:15:54 AM »
Same here, now I can breath again and re-setup with proper scheduling.
Top Airway Sim Fan, Member since July-2007

Dorito_25

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Re: AWS Competition Bureau warns 'Rlines' for slot abuse
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2009, 01:58:57 AM »
To be honest...why bother? What's the point in hogging the slots? There is no instantaneous benefit, barely any profit. And it will take a long time to change all of the slot times...

Offline Sigma

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Re: AWS Competition Bureau warns 'Rlines' for slot abuse
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2009, 02:30:15 AM »
To be honest...why bother? What's the point in hogging the slots? There is no instantaneous benefit, barely any profit. And it will take a long time to change all of the slot times...

Slots are everything at major airports that are rather slot-limited like JFK (I don't know how tight JFK is right now as I'm not in JA3).  If you tie up all the slots with super cheap aircraft flying dozens of times a day, your competition can't open any new routes.  It'll cost you a lot of money to do, but you can open new routes at your leisure by releasing the slots back to yourself.


Talentz

  • Former member
Re: AWS Competition Bureau warns 'Rlines' for slot abuse
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2009, 03:11:19 AM »
I would like to make an official request to the AWS Competition bureau.

I respectfully request that you force bankrupt my competitor at PEK so that I can have more slots...


.. Please?  :laugh:


Talentz

Offline ali5541

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Re: AWS Competition Bureau warns 'Rlines' for slot abuse
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2009, 04:36:22 AM »
Slots are everything at major airports that are rather slot-limited like JFK (I don't know how tight JFK is right now as I'm not in JA3).  If you tie up all the slots with super cheap aircraft flying dozens of times a day, your competition can't open any new routes.  It'll cost you a lot of money to do, but you can open new routes at your leisure by releasing the slots back to yourself.



His right, Rlines had all the slots, I could not find one good slot to utilize the max time available on my new aircrafts. And you must know that new aircrafts are very pricey if there leased (which is my case). I had only 1 short flight per day on my Boeing 727-200 because all the slots where in the low numbers as well as at different times. Now I have about 3 flights per day on them.
Top Airway Sim Fan, Member since July-2007

Hachiko

  • Former member
Re: AWS Competition Bureau warns 'Rlines' for slot abuse
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2009, 05:17:09 AM »
I would like to make an official request to the AWS Competition bureau.

I respectfully request that you force bankrupt my competitor at PEK so that I can have more slots...


.. Please?  :laugh:


Talentz

 ;D Hahaha! Excellent reply of yours. LOL. Are you sure that you did not expose your strategy with slots :)
Resistance is futile... regards from Beijing, its a fair play.
AA.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2009, 06:00:42 AM by Abducted Alien »

Online Seattle

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Re: AWS Competition Bureau warns 'Rlines' for slot abuse
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2009, 04:49:17 PM »
lol you guys. I think that ALG needs more slots...... I only hold like 80% of them! :P ;)
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bpreles

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Re: AWS Competition Bureau warns 'Rlines' for slot abuse
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2009, 10:40:45 PM »
Where does it say in the rules for airway sim that you cannot hog all the slots? Oh wait, there are no rules that I can find. I believe what the administrator did was wrong by over stepping their bounds and creating rules where no rules exist in the first place. The only reference I can find remotely that speaks of TERMS OF USE is for the FORUMS.

B

 :o

Offline Sami

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Re: AWS Competition Bureau warns 'Rlines' for slot abuse
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2009, 10:47:18 PM »
The administration encourages all players to "fair play" and any means of attempted cheating or abusing the system, by using the slot system like this for example, is not allowed. As it is perfectly clear that it's not how it's supposed to be used...

You are right that it is not said anywhere that this particular thing is not allowed. But there is no way every little detail can be written down so the administration still has the ultimate rule to decide what is right and wrong. However have to say that this is really the first case in which we've had to take actions inside the game world like this so there is no need to worry about admins constantly watching your every move...

http://www.airwaysim.com/Terms/Full
« Last Edit: September 07, 2009, 10:50:14 PM by sami »

Offline Sigma

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Re: AWS Competition Bureau warns 'Rlines' for slot abuse
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2009, 10:49:24 PM »
You couldn't possibly create rules for every possible thing a person could do in the game.  Just like in real-life, when anti-competition laws were put into place, they didn't (and couldn't) spell out every single possible anti-competitive action that a company could undertake.  They're taken on a case-by-case basis.

Some things, like what this particular airline did, are clearly 'gaming the game'.  The "adminstrator", aka "the judicial system", found his actions to be anti-competitive and forced him to free up the slots.

He can still do the same thing legitimately if he wants by putting his aircraft on legitimate revenue-earning routes to all nearby airports, rather than spamming the crap out of a single airport with a few thousand flights a day in order to consume all the slots.

Is it subjective and open to interpretation?  Yeap.  Just like real-life.

Offline Unbornio

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Re: AWS Competition Bureau warns 'Rlines' for slot abuse
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2009, 01:05:37 PM »
I have a question. Is like running routes from Airport A to Airport B and using Airport B as a mini hub to other places... allowed?
Beta Tester

Online Seattle

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Re: AWS Competition Bureau warns 'Rlines' for slot abuse
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2009, 04:09:20 PM »
I have a question. Is like running routes from Airport A to Airport B and using Airport B as a mini hub to other places... allowed?
Yup.
Founder of the Star Alliance!

Offline Dasha

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Re: AWS Competition Bureau warns 'Rlines' for slot abuse
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2009, 08:27:58 AM »
I don't understand this. Frankly I find the idea quite genius. BMI is doing the same thing with their LHR slots. NOT allowing an airline to 'safe' his slots goes against EVERYTHING the Free Market stands for.

He paid for the planes, pays for the slots and obviously is making losses with the routes. In my opinion there is nothing wrong with doing this.

So banning this action would plunge AWS back into the stone age of a controlled market...
The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes, decide everything

Kammola

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Re: AWS Competition Bureau warns 'Rlines' for slot abuse
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2009, 10:51:32 AM »
I don't understand this. Frankly I find the idea quite genius. BMI is doing the same thing with their LHR slots. NOT allowing an airline to 'safe' his slots goes against EVERYTHING the Free Market stands for.

He paid for the planes, pays for the slots and obviously is making losses with the routes. In my opinion there is nothing wrong with doing this.
The airport does not live from the slots but passanger fees. Every slot without passangers is away from the earnings of the airport. If you see it this way, slot "safing" should be priced right.

 

Offline Sami

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Re: AWS Competition Bureau warns 'Rlines' for slot abuse
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2009, 11:50:45 AM »
BMI is doing the same thing with their LHR slots.

All I have to say that not even remotely the same thing.

Offline Dasha

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Re: AWS Competition Bureau warns 'Rlines' for slot abuse
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2009, 12:30:03 PM »
All I wanted to say is that like this the creative players get punished. He thought of something brilliant, we didn't.

Happens in real life too... I rest my case :)
The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes, decide everything

Offline Sigma

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Re: AWS Competition Bureau warns 'Rlines' for slot abuse
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2009, 01:10:07 PM »
All I wanted to say is that like this the creative players get punished. He thought of something brilliant, we didn't.
There's nothing brilliant about it, nor is it a new idea.  Everyone who flies into slot-tight airports knows that you start your short-hauls up first in order to consume as many slots as you can as fast as you can.  But you don't fly all your planes to the same nearby airport 1000 times a day.  That's gaming the game, and is a by-product of the fact that we start in a world where there's mega-airports that have all their slots open which is wholly unrealistic but the only way it would work.  Such scenarios haven't ever and wouldn't ever exist in real-life, where whole major international airports were open for takers, and even if they did, no single airline would be allowed to consume all the slots using the method that Rlines was using.  All he has to do to stay "legal" is just fly all those planes to different nearby destinations.  But that's not as easy as just copying the same schedule a few dozen times.

Quote
Happens in real life too... I rest my case :)
No it doesn't.  It would be illegal in any nation with anti-competition laws on the books which would be the vast majority.

And, no, what BMI and others are doing at LHR in real-life is not the same thing.  They are continuing to fly routes where pax have dropped off in order to preserve their slots because the laws require that they continue to operate them; not because they want to fly the planes empty to steal slots, but because they have to fly empty to keep slots.  That is a wholly different scenario then, say, BMI opening up 1000 flights per day from LHR to London City across town just to use up all the slots at LHR.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2009, 01:16:02 PM by Sigma »

 

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