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Author Topic: [ok] End of lease return condition  (Read 3991 times)

Offline T8KE0FF

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[ok] End of lease return condition
« on: August 15, 2009, 04:28:09 PM »
When you go on a trip you arrive at the destination airport and you buy a hire car you are asked to return it with a full tank of fuel and in good condition. I think if a airline leases a a/c out to another airline it should be given back in atleast 85%+ condition and possibly major maintenance work e.g C+D check's are done if they have expired. This would be a good way of maximizing profits for the leasing airline...

What do you think?
« Last Edit: August 09, 2015, 05:42:24 PM by sami »

Offline Sigma

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Re: End of lease return condition
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2009, 04:36:29 PM »
Well, I think the last thing we should be concerned with is maximizing the profits of lessors, as they generally are rolling in it.  But, regardless, maintenance terms are always conditions of leasing, and it's been discussed several times.  Sami's made some comments, but there's been no word on when we can expect to see the feature in there.

That said, while it is not common for airlines to run leased aircraft into the ground, it does happen fairly often.

Offline Unbornio

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Re: End of lease return condition
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2009, 05:07:48 PM »
Most planes in the market aren't even 85%
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Offline Maarten Otto

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Re: End of lease return condition
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2009, 06:32:28 PM »
I think it's the risk of the lessor, and the problem of the leasing company. I once returned a plane back to the lessor 1 day prior to D exam. His problem, not mine. I am just the person who doesn't want to pay 6 milion for a check. I did expect some shouting, but thankfully nothing

ban2

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Re: End of lease return condition
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2009, 08:13:37 PM »
quite right too, unless it is your terms of contract you should return the plane without paying the expensive D checks, after all this why you lease a plane over purchasing.

that is why it is more expensive to lease anything rather than buy.

Offline Sami

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samomuransky

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Re: End of lease return condition
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2011, 09:03:22 AM »
What about setting rules for contract? Airline which is leasing aircraft to some should be able to simply add some rules like "must be returned in condition of XX% or higher", "must be returned with C-check valid for next X months", etc...

+ fines for not fulfilling this

Offline EYguy

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Re: End of lease return condition
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2011, 10:54:37 AM »
+1 and I would add also a discount for buying an a/c after performing heavy maintenance like more than 2 C-checks or a D-check.

Edo

Offline T8KE0FF

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Re: End of lease return condition
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2011, 09:20:26 PM »
What about setting rules for contract? Airline which is leasing aircraft to some should be able to simply add some rules like "must be returned in condition of XX% or higher", "must be returned with C-check valid for next X months", etc...

+ fines for not fulfilling this

Good idea. But what if the airline went bankrupt and couldn't pay for the maintenance of the aircraft on its return? Who would pay then?

Offline BobTheCactus

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Re: End of lease return condition
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2011, 09:24:52 PM »
Good idea. But what if the airline went bankrupt and couldn't pay for the maintenance of the aircraft on its return? Who would pay then?


The bank
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Offline powi

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Re: End of lease return condition
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2011, 06:34:03 AM »

The bank

Why on earth bank would pay that? What interest or liabilities they have involved?

Offline alexgv1

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Re: End of lease return condition
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2011, 11:34:56 AM »
Why on earth bank would pay that? What interest or liabilities they have involved?

I think that's just a suggestion in terms of playability rather than realism. It's the only solution I can see which would work for our game. Plus the airline is paying insurance to the banks so I guess that policy would have to cover it and the bank would have to honour it.
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Offline Wing Commander Chad Studdington

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Re: End of lease return condition
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2011, 02:04:05 PM »
I think that's just a suggestion in terms of playability rather than realism. It's the only solution I can see which would work for our game. Plus the airline is paying insurance to the banks so I guess that policy would have to cover it and the bank would have to honour it.

It would finally give insurance a purpose rather than just being a pointless cost.

Offline powi

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Re: End of lease return condition
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2011, 05:19:31 PM »
I think insurances are not for cases where a company bankrupts and leaves maintenance undone. They are for accidents. My personal opinion is that such a communism is not needed for game balance/playability, one should price the lease according to the risks.

This doesn't mean that I would oppose setting contract rules how one used maintenance leased aircraft. Such regulation is welcome for both gameplay and realism point of view.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2011, 05:22:08 PM by Powi »

Offline EYguy

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Re: End of lease return condition
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2011, 11:10:30 PM »
What about forbidding the "careless player" to lease other a/c if he/she fails to keep the a/c to a certain level before giving it back to the lessor? Or we could give higher fees such a "dishonor charge" for the next leasing... It's like when you have a bad financial record: you get higher interests (leasing fees in this case).

Edo

Offline Sami

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Offline Mr.HP

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Re: End of lease return condition
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2014, 01:37:13 AM »
Quote
Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 365 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.

Hmm, so I dig an ancient topic out of its grave?

sami has pointed to this topic regarding to leased A/C condition, so here we go

I recently just got an A/C returned with 4% condition. The A/C is in GW2, MSN#5454, 1.9 year old, book value of 39M, market value of about 70-75M (in good condition)



Thanks to the last check done 10 months ago which was a C check, I have a 4% condition A/C with the bill of 63M to bring it back to good condition. I'm not sure if I want to revive it, or scrap it. And scrapping option is not even available, as
Quote
It must be either older than 10 years with any condition %, or older than 5 years and less than 40% condition

This problem won't happen if A/C can be retrieved when lessee fail to keep its above certain condition. It's pretty obvious that if lessee don't have money for maintenance for a long time, very slim chance he/she can avoid BK. So why not let brokers take their A/C back and give lessee better chance of recovering?

Thanks

HP
« Last Edit: March 21, 2014, 01:40:14 AM by Mr.HP »

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: End of lease return condition
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2014, 02:36:49 AM »
My competitor scrapped a 2.4 year old aircraft when it came back in probably very bad condition. (Tu-104 of Alpha Airways in GW#4, don't have the serial number around)

Offline Mr.HP

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Re: End of lease return condition
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2014, 02:06:33 AM »
One of my clients has been forced BKed, and I got several A/C back which are in critical poor condition (< 10%)

Those cost me a lot to bring them back to good condition, by either a straight maintenance or a less expensive "detour" one (see more in http://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,52777.0.html)

I'd like to propose, either we are not allowed to play brokering, or we got some protection rights

Thanks

HP

Offline [ATA] Sunbao

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Re: End of lease return condition
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2014, 09:10:34 PM »
Well thats a risk you take if your acting as a broker ?

Sami could make some sort of insurance for the broker to sign up to, but beside that, then its probally just like it is in the real world

 

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