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Author Topic: Permanent Alliance(s) v1  (Read 8648 times)

Talentz

  • Former member
Permanent Alliance(s) v1
« on: July 30, 2009, 07:32:59 AM »
Hello Sami, everyone.

In this feature request, I will discuss and suggest a new feature we will call "permanent alliances". Currently, the system is set up on a per game basis. All data ends once the said game world is finished. What I propose is we create a permanent alliance page where we can keep track of our members, games, ratings ect. Please feel free to add or subtract to this. All opinions are welcomed. ( I can hear you Dazz..)

Summary: The goal is to create a Permanent Alliance page, just as we have "Game Area" and "Information" at the top of the website. In between Forum and My Account, we can squeeze in "Alliances". This page will consist of the different alliances who "sign" up to have space on the website. Much like its set up in game, Alliances who "sign" up are allowed the following: A permanent forum, list of members, ability to invite players (via PM) and logos. The main benefit to this is provide the bigger Alliances a place for all there members to keep in touch and coordinate. Wheres in game, Alliances are limited to 24 payers. In this alliance page, there are no such limits. Basically, were talking about a command and control center for larger alliances. Its not so much a benefit for smaller alliance who struggle to gain more then 24 members. As such, this feature shouldn't be free. Because of the work involved in set up and coding, Sami should be getting paid for this! I will explain later on how to pay for it.


1.) Web interface:  As mentioned above. This feature is not so much "in game" as it is out game. Not that is serves no propose in game, but that the main features are focused to provide command and control outside of each game world. As AWS continues to grow, the larger and mostly older alliances are finding it increasingly difficult to manage there respective alliances. In its current form, the Alliance feature is based on a "per game" basis. Thus it is limited in some regards. The feature was designed mainly as loose co-op, as stated in the manual.

With this new feature. We can start to redesign the nature of the Alliance feature.

One of benefits of this feature is a permanent forum for everyone in the alliance to join and visit. This would be limited to members only (IE:Cant be a member of two alliances and view both forums, ect). Meaning you would have to A) Be an "official" member or B) Be invited to become a member.

Invitations can be sent via the PM system by a pre-fixed statement (just as we have in game).

After pressing the Alliance button, it will bring the user to the Alliance list page. Where, the user can view the different, permanent alliances available in AWS. After the user selects the alliance he/she wish's to view. It will bring the user to the Alliance page. Listed on the page will include the following: Alliance name (duh!) Alliance logo, Founder and Co-founders of the alliance. Current members number, date founded and Link to "apply". If the user clicks on the Current members number, it should then link to a "master" roster of all members and the games they are currently playing. Along with date joined and alliance ranking status. This also allows members look at the different stats within the alliance.

There are are a few more ideas I have, but this will do for now.

2.) Alliance set up:

First off, we would need to "set up" an Alliance. For that, just as in game, it would require 3 players. One with the title of Founder and 2 Co-Founders. These players will have the same powers as there in game cousins. They would also be listed on the main Alliance page as "persons to contact" for players to apply and handle alliance matters. Theses titles are not to be taken lightly as they are to be held accountable for alliance actions. Be it player issues or even issues with Sami and/or AWS management. Thus, if your not up to managing and up keeping an alliance, this title is really not for you. I remember someone asking what the rewards are for managing an alliance. For which I said " There is none. Its alot of work and hours for no pay. But, if everyone in your alliance is happy, then, that in itself is a reward."   Ok, ok.. back on topic...

3.) Permanent Forum: Well.. this shouldn't be hard to image. Currently we have our own forum when an alliance is created in a given game. However, it is limited to only that game. It can't be linked to other games nor is it saved or rolled over into other games. For larger Alliances, this becomes a problem with members greatly outnumbering allowed members in game for said alliance. Thus, a forum for everyone to have access to and view, helps keep the alliance together and informed. It can function just like its in game cousin, were the founding members serve as mods. Within there given power.

I would suggest that we add some more .. custom forum features. Such as ranks within the alliance, avatar ability. The kind of stuff you would find in an normal forum. As, this is basically what I propose we set up.

4.) Free? err Not! Payment plan/option: Well, I know what the first few things are going through your mind Sami. One of them is along the lines of "I guess I have to set this all up and code this @#$% for free eh?" Respectfully, No. I don't think this should be a free feature. Here is what I based my opinion on:

1.) This is mainly an "out game" feature. Thus, the credits we pay to play a game world don't really cover this feature.

2.) The work load in getting this set up.. wont be as easy as I typed it up to be.

3.) I don't see every alliance in AWS using this feature. Could it be a draw back? Maybe. But, since only a few alliance will set this up, that's even more of a reason to charge us for it.

4.) While this has strong potential gameplay functions. One of the main or untold benefits for this feature are for us: The leaders/management of large alliances. Seattle, Blumage, Digifreak, myself and others in our position. We spend alot of our time working to make are respective alliances thrive. I can't tell you how many hours I've spent working outside of the game world on alliance issues/matters. Its the same for everyone in my position.

 If there were a place we can command and control our respective alliances from, aka this feature, ask them yourself; they and I wouldn't mind paying for this to save us some time and hassle. In fact, Blueskies has there own off site web forum to coordinate with all there members. Im sure it helps them immensely!


So.. after explaining why you should make this a paid for feature, err.. how to charge us eh? What I suggest is to charge those who "sign up" for this feature. Upkeep of the feature should cost us no less then 3 credits per month to maintain the alliance page and features/functions. I think 4 credits would be ideal. But we can talk about this after getting the feature started.. we must crawl before we walk  ;)

Now, as stated above, there should be three players that form the alliance. Thus, theses three players would be held "accountable" for paying alliance upkeep to you. At first, theses three lucky (lol!) players would be required a down payment of 10 credits to "create" the alliance. After two months, upkeep will be charged on a monthly basis.

Well ok.. but again, how do I draw credits from you?  Simple. What I propose is we create an "Alliance bank". Where by we can "donate" credits to pay for alliance upkeep. It is strictly under you and/or AWS management control. No one is allowed access to it. It serves as a place to put deposit credits into, for payment of monthly upkeep. This also has a backwards function to act as a "donate button" which alliance members can donate or pay alliance dues. However you want to think of its as. Thus, everyone in the alliance can pitch in to pay the monthly upkeep. 1 credit per member wont kill us. Well... it shouldn't anyway..

Does that mean all members are required to pay into this "alliance bank" .. Meaning I have to PAY TO BE IN AN ALLIANCE NOW!!!111. No, as I stated above, the three founders are responsible for Alliance upkeep. What this does offer is a way for members to .. help out. A few credits here and there wouldn't hurt. But, members would not be required to pay "alliance dues" to be in said alliance.

As I said, the founders are the ones responsible for alliance upkeep. If they fail to pay up, the alliance website gets shut down. Remember I mentioned being an alliance leader isn't for the faint of heart?   ;)


5.) In game alliance function and this new out game alliance feature.. connection??  Well, in its current version, v1, there isn't much connection at this point. Which is why I want to leave it open for that, so we can fully combine the two to work hand in hand.

However, as I said earlier, we must crawl before we walk. Setting this up should be first. Then we can discuss and plan on combining the in-game alliance feature and the new out game feature into one greatly enhanced Alliance function. That is what I'm hoping to see in the future.


Thank you for reading and your time,


Talentz  
« Last Edit: July 13, 2011, 11:41:30 AM by sami »

ICEcoldair881

  • Former member
Re: Permanent Alliance(s) v1
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2009, 08:35:35 AM »
omg talentz, yur startin' to sound like sami.... :o STOP IT!! :laugh:

Offline Seattle

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Re: Permanent Alliance(s) v1
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2009, 07:07:09 PM »
This took me 15 minutes to read :P

But I agree with you completely.

 ;D


oh yah, I think I have the bank thing covered, I have 293 credits.  ;D
Founder of the Star Alliance!

ICEcoldair881

  • Former member
Re: Permanent Alliance(s) v1
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2009, 10:13:21 PM »
 :o :o I only have 5.... :-[ :(

Offline Seattle

  • Members
  • Posts: 2791
Re: Permanent Alliance(s) v1
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2009, 01:56:09 AM »
:o :o I only have 5.... :-[ :(
Hey, I worked for mine. I submitted god knows, 150 airports? and over 10 aircraft models.  :laugh: :P
Founder of the Star Alliance!

Offline JonesyUK

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Re: Permanent Alliance(s) v1
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2009, 11:26:06 PM »
Great Idea, Was going to suggest making private forums available, but this is much more indepth  :)

Talentz

  • Former member
Re: Permanent Alliance(s) v1
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2010, 06:21:02 AM »
Bump!


Sami! V1.2 is out and running strong... lets move on to another improved feature!



Any further thoughts from everyone? I know, its a pain to read...


- Talentz

Offline raptorva

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Re: Permanent Alliance(s) v1
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2010, 06:41:18 AM »
Well I do agree that this kind of feature would certainly help with keeping the forums together for the bigger alliances, I'm not sure about the rest though as I've never been in an alliance management position

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: Permanent Alliance(s) v1
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2010, 05:51:10 PM »
Good idea, Talentz.

Offline Knud B

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Re: Permanent Alliance(s) v1
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2010, 08:32:26 PM »
I find it hard to see the purpose of this ...
Each World has its own alliances, which can only be established after some time. And sometimes you go bankrupt and must start over again.
What will happen to the alliance page in the time when the alliance does not exist?
Knud Berggreen
City Air Service 
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Offline psw231

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  • Posts: 295
Re: Permanent Alliance(s) v1
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2010, 10:35:37 PM »
  I like yor idea, at present I am trsing to gather 25 Canadians to form an alliace for future game worlds and if I manage to do this it would be great to have it as a permanent list.

ICEcoldair881

  • Former member
Re: Permanent Alliance(s) v1
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2010, 10:43:01 PM »
Yes, I think that it would be good to have this feature. :) +9 by now I guess. ;D

(btw, psw231 did you get my pm about the canadian airline thing?)

Offline NorgeFly

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Re: Permanent Alliance(s) v1
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2010, 05:37:39 PM »
Since WorldLink has now had it's name hi-jacked and reserved by another player/alliance, meaning we can not use the long standing WorldLink name, I also support this move.

Offline Name_Omitted

  • Members
  • Posts: 292
Re: Permanent Alliance(s) v1
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2010, 09:43:31 PM »
I find it hard to see the purpose of this ...
Each World has its own alliances, which can only be established after some time. And sometimes you go bankrupt and must start over again.
What will happen to the alliance page in the time when the alliance does not exist?

The point is simple, this is a social game, and a permanent alliance allows friends to keep tabs on each other... make it more likely to stick around.  I would go a step further and say that if you are not activity involved with a game, being a part of the alliance forum costs half (or a third) of a credit.

Ansettaddict123

  • Former member
Re: Permanent Alliance(s) v1
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2010, 01:37:31 AM »
+1

A great idea Talentz

Branmuffin

  • Former member
Re: Permanent Alliance(s) v1
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2010, 04:11:00 PM »
Presumably this proposed permanent alliance feature would completely replace the current system? 
And if so, that would mean that anyone wishing to form an alliance would need to pay to do so?

While I can see where you're coming from, I am against a feature that would involve removing a current feature and replacing it with a something that demands recurring fees, especially in a subscription-based game that already requires a one-time fee to join.

I do love the rest of the idea, though.

Jps

  • Former member
Re: Permanent Alliance(s) v1
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2010, 07:26:39 PM »
Presumably this proposed permanent alliance feature would completely replace the current system? 
And if so, that would mean that anyone wishing to form an alliance would need to pay to do so?

While I can see where you're coming from, I am against a feature that would involve removing a current feature and replacing it with a something that demands recurring fees, especially in a subscription-based game that already requires a one-time fee to join.

I do love the rest of the idea, though.

I don't think it would replace the current system. It would merely enhance it by giving alliances their own forums outside of any game, and thus the ability to keep track and chat with members even though they are not all playing in the same game world.
I too think, that alliances should be free as long as one has paid to play in that particular game world. Only after you take the alliance out of a specific game world, there could be costs involved. But, not necessrily (I'd say it to be very good customer service to allow those few dozen airlines (actually, under 20 big ones, I think?) have their own sub forum for no extra fee.

ICEcoldair881

  • Former member
Re: Permanent Alliance(s) v1
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2011, 06:20:48 AM »
jesus I've been scanning the forums and so far I count 12 topics that were recently bumped. ;D Glad everyone has finally joined us. ;)

and any news from sami re: this idea?

Offline Sami

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    • AirwaySim - Are you the next Richard Branson?
Re: Permanent Alliance(s) v1
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2011, 08:30:06 AM »
Few questions/items:

 - Permanent alliances are always active with an active private forum all the time, even if not a single member is part of any game world.

 - When alliance, permanent, is formed the privaet forum is formed and selected members join the membergroup to have access to this forum.

 - When a new game world starts, I guess the system should auto-create a new subforum under the private alliance's forum for that particular game world?

 - When a new game starts, it automatically forms the new alliance to this game world, but without members so far. (ie. alliance is pending)

 - When a member joins the game world, and if he is part of a membergrop of permanent alliance, he is noted at airline founding page that he will be a member of said alliance.

 - However when the alliance becomes active is still unknown. After 6 months? Do the members join the alliance when they have enough planes one by one, or how. This is a bit tricky.

 - What would be the rules in forming a permanent alliance. How about rules dissolving it.

 - Costs; the bank system etc talked above seems very complicated. Why just not draw like 2Cr from each alliance member per month for the ability to be part of an alliance. Flat fee, charged once a month (1st of each month for the starting month), non-refundable (ie. if you leave in the middle of the month the 2cr have been paid)? It is very simple to add to present billing system. And one-time setup fee of 3x 2Cr (2Cr from each of three required initial members) to make sure the alliances are not set up without properly thinking of it since it probably will require manual admin work to set them up (since there will be less than 10 of these overall so no need to make the creation fancy and automated)   A fee also makes sure that the people are just not hanging out there but would use the sim too.

How would the settings work then. Permanent alliance would have the ability to control basic alliance settings like logo and description outside the game world (and these settings are then carried over to the game world when it starts, like the Curse's suggestion of user master settings). But I guess there should be the need to control the default values of invitation/application setting and fees too. Since if none of the managing members join the particular game world they wouldn't have the possibility to change the settings otherwise.

Technically this is quite quickly built (the joinings etc), but the interface for managing the perm.alliance is another thing.


« Last Edit: July 13, 2011, 08:39:56 AM by sami »

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: Permanent Alliance(s) v1
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2011, 10:59:06 AM »
- Permanent alliances are always active with an active private forum all the time, even if not a single member is part of any game world.

Honestly it would be nice (if it's technically possible) if Alliance moderators could extend the forum to 2-3 subforums. For example "general talk", "guides", "internal applications future gameworlds".

Quote
- When alliance, permanent, is formed the privaet forum is formed and selected members join the membergroup to have access to this forum.

It should be possible to administrate this group and invite people simply with their username. So no hard limit like 50 people or so. An invitation (will you join that group? Yes/No) could prevent spam.
Kicking people out of that group should also be possible as well as being in more than one group (if an alliance doesn't participate in a gameworld).

Quote
- When a new game world starts, I guess the system should auto-create a new subforum under the private alliance's forum for that particular game world?

 - When a new game starts, it automatically forms the new alliance to this game world, but without members so far. (ie. alliance is pending)

Yep, when you announce a new gameworld some kind of button should be available: "Will your alliance XYZ participate in Jet Age #33?" If one clicks no no sub-forums are created as well as the alliance isn't established in this gameworld.

Quote
- When a member joins the game world, and if he is part of a membergrop of permanent alliance, he is noted at airline founding page that he will be a member of said alliance.

What when management decides this one member should not participate for one gameworld? Or if the specific person wants to try some sowjet aircraft only airline in Modern Times scenario and better not join his loved alliance?

So better not make it too independent.

Quote
- However when the alliance becomes active is still unknown. After 6 months? Do the members join the alliance when they have enough planes one by one, or how. This is a bit tricky.

Maybe ignore min aircraft limit and maybe ignore 6 month rule as well. But that's a decision on your end.

Quote
- What would be the rules in forming a permanent alliance. How about rules dissolving it.

The alliance is deleted when it is requested to you or it is inactive for x gameworlds.

Forming could be done with send an E-Mail to you if you think it's not worth to code a special tool.

Quote
- Costs; the bank system etc talked above seems very complicated. Why just not draw like 2Cr from each alliance member per month for the ability to be part of an alliance. Flat fee, charged once a month (1st of each month for the starting month), non-refundable (ie. if you leave in the middle of the month the 2cr have been paid)? It is very simple to add to present billing system. And one-time setup fee of 3x 2Cr (2Cr from each of three required initial members) to make sure the alliances are not set up without properly thinking of it since it probably will require manual admin work to set them up (since there will be less than 10 of these overall so no need to make the creation fancy and automated)   A fee also makes sure that the people are just not hanging out there but would use the sim too.

Honestly I don't think alliances will be this popular when you have to pay 2 credits (or: two credits more than people without alliances). In fact the only advantage is community so especially "random people" will hardly join or instead of a permanent alliance people use to do it in the same way as now. :/ A one time fee to establish it is ok and maybe a maintain fee every 6 month or so.
So I see the point you have to invest time for coding, manually adding things and more traffic due to forum etc. and I will absolutely not say this should not be dignified, but maybe there's a way that avoid people decide against alliances because of a monthly fee.

 

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