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Author Topic: C-check scheduling  (Read 6350 times)

Offline gazzz0x2z

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Re: C-check scheduling
« Reply #40 on: May 27, 2015, 06:58:33 AM »
Jumbo : it's an absolute monster of IA you want to have implemented there. It would be simple for a company flying only Saab 2000. But look at A320-200 and their endless variants, with all different ranges. Add to this different seating configurations(because some lines are full of business, but in Reus there is none), and you have a nightmare ready to be optimized.

I can already imagine the endless flame threads complaining "waaaaah!!! it took the wrong plane!!! it did cost me too much money in petrol!!! it did not have full capacity!!! it wrecked my game!!! And I did have useless C capacity there, and not enough here!!! That game is fubaaaaaaar!!!"

Frankly, I don't want that. Everyone has the same rules, and everyone bites the same loss of income due to C/D checks. And looking at your company in GW3, mhhh, well, You just have 9 times my benefit - and I'm easily in top 100. Where's the problem? Everyone else suffers from checks also.

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: C-check scheduling
« Reply #41 on: May 27, 2015, 07:44:58 AM »
Jumbo : it's an absolute monster of IA you want to have implemented there. It would be simple for a company flying only Saab 2000. But look at A320-200 and their endless variants, with all different ranges. Add to this different seating configurations(because some lines are full of business, but in Reus there is none), and you have a nightmare ready to be optimized.

You would not have to do anything.  Everything having to do with aircraft pools would be optional.  You can either assign a specific aircraft to the schedule or a pool of aircraft.

As far as different variants of A320, they are not really that different.  If your airport has 95% of it's routes under 2500nm, and a handful of schedules where you need longer range, you would put all your A320s into one big pool, except of the handful that fly specific, longer range schedules.

I can already imagine the endless flame threads complaining "waaaaah!!! it took the wrong plane!!! it did cost me too much money in petrol!!! it did not have full capacity!!! it wrecked my game!!! And I did have useless C capacity there, and not enough here!!! That game is fubaaaaaaar!!!"

Frankly, I don't want that. Everyone has the same rules, and everyone bites the same loss of income due to C/D checks. And looking at your company in GW3, mhhh, well, You just have 9 times my benefit - and I'm easily in top 100. Where's the problem? Everyone else suffers from checks also.

But real world airlines, medium to larger airlines just don't stop flying because of a C or D check.  Maybe tiny airlines do, but mainline airlines fly their schedules.  They have extra aircraft that replace other aircraft that's in service.

Everybody suffers the C checks of the aircraft, nothing changes about that, but an airline does not have to suffer lost revenue because of C checks.  All it takes is to have a few extra aircraft, and an airline can run pretty much the full schedule.

Airlines have people who keep track of when aircraft need service, and schedule it to the minimum disruption of their flight schedule.  It can be done manually in AWS, but it takes a lot of time, and it is not much fun.  Which is why I am proposing automating the task.

Only when it is automated, it starts to make sense to schedule your C-Checks, which is the subject of the thread.  Let's say you have a month when you have only 5, and next month you have 15.  It would make sense to move some around.

But without some automation of swapping aircraft, it makes no sense to even talk about scheduling the C checks.

Offline gazzz0x2z

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Re: C-check scheduling
« Reply #42 on: May 27, 2015, 11:13:59 AM »
I was not clear : "automating the task" is not at all an easy thing to do. Not at all. I've done my share of computer projects, and this really seems the false good idea to me, the one that sends everything in the wall.

You speak about pools. Who decides about pools? The player? You're good for a full interface design. The IA? good luck programming it dynamically.

Schedules also would need a full new screen, with all the works that come within. So there would maybe be a nice schedule screen, where you would drag & drop spare planes to planned checks. Weeks of work to have something that look like something, & months for real, efficient, polished screens.

That's a full project that you ask there, not just a little nice neat thin to have in addition. I can already imagine pages & pages of specification. Unless you program it without preparation & get lost in the amount of details.


IIRC, there is already a big project in the works(city-based demand & cargo that go with). As much as I support cosmetic but useful screen revamps(replacing those RPKs with more useful stats, for example), because it's a low-hanging fruit, this C-Check complete remake that some ask, on a regular basis, is a huge big thing with not much added value. Of course it would be better to have it than not. But it's very low in term of priorities. The cost/value is not good.

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: C-check scheduling
« Reply #43 on: May 27, 2015, 12:51:10 PM »
I was not clear : "automating the task" is not at all an easy thing to do. Not at all. I've done my share of computer projects, and this really seems the false good idea to me, the one that sends everything in the wall.

You speak about pools. Who decides about pools? The player? You're good for a full interface design. The IA? good luck programming it dynamically.

It would be a lot simpler than you are imagining.  Player creates a pool, gives it a name, selects the fleet type (this would be the only new screen).  Aircraft can be assigned to a pool.  Just an extra field for aircraft, to be able to assign an aircraft for the pool.

The scheduling screen would be pretty much intact.  The only difference is that a schedule could be either assigned (to aircraft or pool) or unassigned / free.  Player could create as many of the free / unassigned schedules as he likes to (for planning purposes).

A flag would control if you are looking at assigned or unassigned schedules.

The "move schedule" button would have a new functionality:
- unassigned schedule could be "moved" / assigned to an aircraft or pool (would no longer be unassigned)
- for assigned schedule, move could either move it to a different pool, different aircraft or schedule could be un-assigned, taken off-line (= would become unassigned).

Schedules also would need a full new screen, with all the works that come within. So there would maybe be a nice schedule screen, where you would drag & drop spare planes to planned checks. Weeks of work to have something that look like something, & months for real, efficient, polished screens.

None of that stuff is necessary.  When a schedule is assigned to a pool, the first available aircraft from the pool would be assigned to it (immediately, during player interaction, or player would be warned that there are more schedules than aircraft in the pool and disallow assignment.)

Then, at midnight (or whenever aircraft goes into or out of B/C/D checks), the system would swap the aircraft automatically.  For every aircraft that is in B/C/D check, and is assigned to a schedule, the system would check if there is an unassigned aircraft within the pool not flying any schedule.  If so, the system would swap them.  That's all there is to it.

No UI is necessary for any of this.  The only UI change I foresee is adding filter "pool" to "My Aircraft" and maybe to Scheduling screen.

That's a full project that you ask there, not just a little nice neat thin to have in addition. I can already imagine pages & pages of specification. Unless you program it without preparation & get lost in the amount of details.

IIRC, there is already a big project in the works(city-based demand & cargo that go with). As much as I support cosmetic but useful screen revamps(replacing those RPKs with more useful stats, for example), because it's a low-hanging fruit, this C-Check complete remake that some ask, on a regular basis, is a huge big thing with not much added value. Of course it would be better to have it than not. But it's very low in term of priorities. The cost/value is not good.

I think this is relatively small project that can have a quick turnaround.  There are very few interface changes, the logic behind it is extremely simple.  At least compared to passenger allocation algorithms.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2015, 01:01:04 PM by JumboShrimp »

Offline gazzz0x2z

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Re: C-check scheduling
« Reply #44 on: May 28, 2015, 08:00:55 AM »
(.../...)
None of that stuff is necessary.  When a schedule is assigned to a pool, the first available aircraft from the pool would be assigned to it (immediately, during player interaction, or player would be warned that there are more schedules than aircraft in the pool and disallow assignment.)

Then, at midnight (or whenever aircraft goes into or out of B/C/D checks), the system would swap the aircraft automatically.  For every aircraft that is in B/C/D check, and is assigned to a schedule, the system would check if there is an unassigned aircraft within the pool not flying any schedule.  If so, the system would swap them.  That's all there is to it.
(.../...)

As I said : it works wonders for Saab2000. In current GW3, I've got 5 bases and 8 different kinds of ERJs. Because each one fills a niche.

I can put everything in a big bag, but the system will be lost. A leased ERJ145STD with 50 lowcost seats and 790NM range that flies 5 daily short flights is really different in terms of use than a purchased ERJ135LR with 30 premium seats and its stunning 1860NM range that even allows some transatlantic flights - yeah, I know, I'm crazy. Still, it's making a little bit money with that bird.

Or I can make 8 pools, multiplied by 5 bases, that's 40 pools, most of them useless. With idle, leased planes that do not fly half of the time, and that still leave holes when C-checks collide. In other words, it stays useless without a proper C-Check scheduling screen. Even with it, usefulness is limited.

And it does not work for B-checks, either. Not all B-checks begin at midnight. When you do red eyes flights and 7-days schedules(and I assume a big company as yours does), B-checks are spread throughout the day. Or you stop the plane 2 days for a B-check. Not very efficient use of tough-to-get planes...

Offline Frederik

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Re: C-check scheduling
« Reply #45 on: May 28, 2015, 08:26:23 AM »
Point well taken - it adds complexity and not all players want this.

What about introducing the pool for those who prefer to play it that way and keeping it on automatic for those who have a different strategy. That way everyone would be happy!
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Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: C-check scheduling
« Reply #46 on: May 28, 2015, 05:33:33 PM »
As I said : it works wonders for Saab2000. In current GW3, I've got 5 bases and 8 different kinds of ERJs. Because each one fills a niche.

As Frederik said, these pools will spare planes will not work well in every situation.  But no one would be forcing you to use them, it would be entirely optional.  You can continue to operate the same was as you do currently.

There would be more benefit to commonality.  This would be a way to reward commonality, as opposed to just punishing lack of commonality, as the system does currently.

Or I can make 8 pools, multiplied by 5 bases, that's 40 pools, most of them useless. With idle, leased planes that do not fly half of the time, and that still leave holes when C-checks collide. In other words, it stays useless without a proper C-Check scheduling screen. Even with it, usefulness is limited.

And it does not work for B-checks, either. Not all B-checks begin at midnight. When you do red eyes flights and 7-days schedules(and I assume a big company as yours does), B-checks are spread throughout the day. Or you stop the plane 2 days for a B-check. Not very efficient use of tough-to-get planes...

B checks are a bit of a gray area, since we are talking hours as opposed to days, but still, it would also, the pool of spare aircraft could provide a benefit here as well.

But primary reason is for C/D checks.  A spare aircraft can be re-based to a different base for this (there may be some fuel cost.  Ideally, the pools would not be base specific, but airline-wide, and aircraft would be re-based as needed.

Offline RuneF

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Re: C-check scheduling
« Reply #47 on: January 13, 2016, 08:37:59 PM »
Totally agree with the pool idea, kinda ruins the game for not 24/7 players as it is now.

Offline 11Air

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Re: C-check scheduling
« Reply #48 on: February 10, 2016, 09:52:53 AM »
Yes, I really want to be able to smooth out my C checks so I can keep a spare of the type as a back-up.  Currently what happens is:-
1. I need to transfer routes a few weeks prior to C or D to be sure I don't miss the date and have my route vacant until the a/c returns.

Other situations where scheduling C & D checks are useful:-
2. I'm going to have a D check due before the following C check (buying 2nd hand often causes this) and I really want to do the D check when the next C check is due so it all smooths out in the end.
3. There's another thread discussing assigning Reserve Aircraft to fly the routes while C and D checks are being done. Scheduling should provide for stating which aircraft should be substituted (if available) while the aircraft is in service.
3b. You big players may want the Pool version of this where stand-by aircraft are assigned to a pool name, the Maintenance Schedule will allow for a stand-by aircraft to be drawn subject to availability (plus a range check).

Offline L1011fan

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Re: C-check scheduling
« Reply #49 on: March 14, 2016, 02:02:54 AM »
I thought a D check pretty much covers everything. Not a need to do both at the same time. I do C checks if they are under a month away and the cash is available. It was also my understanding performing a B check covers the A check. Correct me if I'm wrong.  :-\

Offline 11Air

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Re: C-check scheduling
« Reply #50 on: March 20, 2016, 02:44:20 PM »
L1011Fan - I believe you are correct.  I sometimes do a higher check rather than the one due so there are no more interruptions to the schedule.

Offline sam12t

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Re: C-check scheduling
« Reply #51 on: March 27, 2016, 02:29:56 AM »
Totally agree!

Offline RuneF

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Re: C-check scheduling
« Reply #52 on: October 31, 2016, 10:01:58 PM »
There is a lot of automation that would be possible, the pool of spareplanes ia a good idea, and would not be hard to implement. As now it means you have to have your hand on the wheel 24/7 to cover it. That dont make sense in anyway with a gameworld spanning 1,5 real life years. Its kinda a gamekiller, when you reach 300 planes + I guess it would be a boring game with all automated but for now changing planes in an nonautomated way with known tasks is boring as well.

 

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